Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:11:16 -0500
From: txliberty@hotmail.com ("Terry L Parker")
Subject: Re: [libs4peace] Fwd:Response to Carol Moore from Richard Freedman
To: hapearce@earthlink.net ("Howard Pearce"), libs4peace@yahoogroups.com
All govt agents are not alike; of course!
The allegations of the guilt of bin Laden (bin forgotten) is an assertion by
the administration that is led by known liars and cheats. Despite swearing
to uphold the US Constitution (www.constitution.org) they have ignored its
requirements in reaction to 911. The constitution provides for
congressional PUBLIC process to disclose evidence of guilt of the accused in
order to specify the terms of issuance for 'letters of manqu and reprisal'
That is the ONLY 'constitutional' option when a declaration of 'war' is not
practical.
I don't know that bin Laden (bin forgotten) is an actual perp because no
credible evidence has been presented in the constitutionally provided
process. Since the administration did not dhere to this needed process
they seem to me as suspect as the alleged perps. Also making them suspect
is the rush to a violent initiation of physical force in a strategy that
would obviously harm innocents and not obviously catch the alleged perps.
In case you haven't noticed, bin Laden (bin forgotten) and most of his high
command have escaped this destructive attempt at apprehension.
Doesn't all this make you just a little suspicious of the Bush league?
PeaceInTheHeartOfTexas,
Terry Liberty Parker
AustinVoiceCall 1.512.494.9176
Find 21st Century 'War & Peace' via
'Search' at: www.austin.indymedia.org
Confer at: www.topica.com/lists/LibertyGeneral
And, In Austin Every Sunday 7pm - ?
I host informal discussion of
current ideas & issues at
Hickory St Grill on 8th & Congress
http://profiles.yahoo.com/txliberty
Please consider signing petition at:
http://www.libertarians4peace.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Pearce" <hapearce@earthlink.net>
To: <libs4peace@yahoogroups.com>; "Terry L Parker" <txliberty@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [libs4peace] Fwd:Response to Carol Moore from Richard Freedman
> Sounds good to me !
>
> I don't seem to recall anyone saying that things should be otherwise.
>
> >
> >Since the current accusers did not follow US law AND are know liars and
> >cheats they are as suspect as the alleged perps.
> >
>
> First, I don't speak for Richard Freedman ( my disclaimer :-) ) !!!!
>
> As for being just "as suspect" as the alleged perps, that'sprobably a
stretch for
> me .
> The key here is the phrase "AS SUSPECT" as opposed to simply "ALSO
SUSPECT".
>
> Perhaps you're willing to show us that you believe gov't agents are just
as
> suspect by you yourself boarding a plane alone with one of the alleged
perps in
> preference to a plane with a gov't agent.
>
> I'll take my chances with the plane with one of the gov't agents aboard
rather
> than accept moral equivalence at this point in time.
>
> Good Luck on your trip !
>
>
> Howard Pearce
> LP of MA
>
>
> 4/29/2002 1:04:25 PM, "Terry L Parker" <txliberty@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >How about identifying the perps and then utilize the 'letters of marque
and
> >reprisal' process dictated by the supreme law of this land; the US
> >Constitution (www.constitution.org)
> >
> >Since the current accusers did not follow US law AND are know liars and
> >cheats they are as suspect as the alleged perps.
> >
> >Anyone killed by a govt agent without sanction by the US constitution is
a
> >murder victem; or at least a manslaughter victem. There are now more
such
> >innocent 'collateral damage' victems than the innocents who died on 911.
> >
> >Two wrongs make two wrongs; dauhhh!
> >
> >
> >PeaceInTheHeartOfTexas,
> >Terry Liberty Parker
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Howard Pearce" <hapearce@earthlink.net>
> >To: <libs4peace@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:48 AM
> >Subject: [libs4peace] Fwd:Response to Carol Moore from Richard Freedman
> >
> >
> >> Comments Inserted Below
> >>
> >> ------- Start of forwarded message -------
> >> From: "Freedman, Richard" <rfreedma@mc.com>
> >>
> >> [Freedman, Richard]
> >> > "Richard N. Freedman" [LNC Candidate] wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > At 10:43 AM 4/27/02 -0400, Carol Moore quoted Drew Liberty, who
> >wrote:
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> > > > Libertarians believe that if you leave the US you venture
out
> >at
> >> your own
> >>
> >> > > >risk.
> >> > >
> >>
> >> > What about if you board a plane, or go into the World Trade
Center?
> >Or
> >>
> >> > wherever world terrorism will strike next. I'd rather fight
> >terrorists
> >> > overseas than fight them here.
> >>
> >> >
> >> [Carol Moore]
> >>
> >> > It would be helpful if candidates for LNC were aware of what is
> >>
> >> > in the LP Platform. If you do not agree with parts of the
platform,
> >per
> >> below,
> >>
> >> > please make this very clear to the delegates.
> >> >
> >>
> >> > http://www.lp.org/issues/platform
> >> > "IV. Foreign Policy
> >>
> >> > A.Diplomatic Policy
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 2.International Travel and Foreign Investments
> >>
> >> > We recognize that foreign governments might violate the
rights
> >of
> >> > Americans traveling, living, or owning property abroad, just as
> >those
> >>
> >> > governments violate the rights of their own citizens. We condemn
all
> >>
> >> such violations,
> >> > whether the victims are U.S. citizens or not....
> >>
> >>
> >> Carol seems to have missed the point about planes and the World
Trade
> >> Center. I was not talking about protecting US citizens traveling
> >abroad. I
> >>
> >> was talking about protecting US citizens here in the US. When
> >murderers
> >> cross a border to kill and then run back across the border, do we
> >ignore
> >>
> >> them until they choose to cross again? Or do we pursue them and
make
> >sure
> >>
> >> they will be unable to cross and kill again?
> >>
> >> [Carol Moore]
> >>
> >>
> >> > > ... (Since Israelis have confiscated massive amounts of
> >Palestinian
> >> private
> >>
> >> > > property and killed many times more innocent Palestinians than
> >>
> >> otherwise,
> >> > > that might be noted.)
> >>
> >> [Richard Freedman]
> >> > > More nonsense. The only private property they are confiscating
is
> >war
> >>
> >> > > material: explosives, ammunton, bomb belts, etc.....
> >> >
> >>
> >> [Carol Moore]
> >>
> >> > Israel has illegally confiscated thousands of acres of private
> >> > property to build the 167 odd settlements on the West Bank. Do
you
> >>
> >> support this?
> >>
> >> I would not, if it were true. It is a total fabrication. None of
the
> >>
> >> Israeli villages has been built on confiscated private property.
When
> >the
> >>
> >> Arab countries tried to destroy Israel in 1967 and 1973, Israel
took
> >> control of some additional territory that they needed for national
> >>
> >> security,but it was not privately owned, it was owned by the
> >countries
> >> that had attacked them. It is well settled in international law
that
> >the
> >>
> >> attacked, in such a case, has a right to hold onto territory thus
> >> conquered until peace treaties have been negotiated protecting them
> >>
> >> against future such attacks. Egypt concluded such a treaty, and got
> >its
> >>
> >> territory back. Israel has a good record of keeping its word in
treaty
> >> agreements. The so-called Palestinians have never kept their word
on
> >any
> >>
> >> piece of any agreement.
> >>
> >> > Also, your wife wrote me she lived in Israel for 30 years.
> >>
> >> Also untrue.
> >>
> >> > Did you also? Do you hold dual citizen ship?
> >> No. I lived in Canada from 1968-1970 and 1972-1974 (two 2-year
> >periods)
> >>
> >> but have never lived abroad except for those periods.
> >>
> >> > I think delegates need to know if LNC
> >>
> >> > candidates have
> >> > conflicts of interests regarding their national loyalties,
whether
> >>
> >> > they support
> >>
> >> > human rights abuses by other governments, and whether they intend
to
> >> > use their LNC
> >>
> >> > position to sabotage the LP's non-interventionist position.
> >>
> >> This might be the first time Carol has written something I agree
with.
> >I
> >>
> >> have not, I do not, and I will not.
> >>
> >>
> >> > Frankly, that's what it looks like your campaign is about,
from
> >> > what I have
> >>
> >> > read of your posts.
> >>
> >> My cmpaign is but advacng the Libertarian arty. See my
website
> >at
> >>
> >> http://www.rfreedman.org for my positions.
> >>
> >> The Middle East is not an obsession with me, as it seems to be
with
> >>
> >> Carol, and I have only responded when I have come across outrageous
> >>
> >> distortions, omissions, and lies in areas where I have personal
> >knowledge.
> >> In this particular case, I found lies and insinuations posted to a
> >list to
> >>
> >> which I do not subscribe, and I was only able to counter them when
a
> >> friend called them to my attention. (For future eference, Carol,
if
> >you
> >>
> >> have questions to ask of me, please send them to
> >richard@rfreedman.org, or
> >>
> >> rfreedman@lpma.org. Don't post them to a list that I will most
likely
> >> never see.)
> >>
> >>
> >> -------- End of forwarded message --------
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Howard Pearce
> >> --- hap8192736@earthlink.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
> >>
> >> If you continue to vote for the same policies, you will continue to get
> >the same consequences because of those policies.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> libs4peace-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Stock for $4
and no minimums.
FREE Money 2002.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/nJ9qlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->